Saturday, August 02, 2008

Risk Management in Trading: Where to Place Your Stops




I recently received a couple of emails from traders asking me about placing stops. Should they use stops? Should the stops be 1% away from their entry point? 2%?

I'll provide my perspective on the issue, but also welcome comments from readers and other perspectives.

My quick response is that stop loss exits are necessary; without them, trades lose any favorable risk/reward edge. You can only make money in one of two ways: by ensuring that your winning trades are meaningfully larger than your losers and/or by ensuring that you have meaningfully more winning trades than losing ones. Without clear stop-loss levels and profit targets, it's very easy for the average size of winning and losing trades to converge or even turn unfavorable. That puts a lot of pressure on a trader to be right much more often than wrong.

I think that asking whether you should risk $X or Y% on a trade is useful for general risk management, but not the right question to be asking for the placement of stop-loss levels for specific trades. It gets back to the idea (see link below) that every trade reflects an underlying hypothesis. You stop yourself out when objective evidence tells you that your hypothesis--the idea underlying your trade--is not being confirmed.

I've illustrated this above with one of my own trade setups from Friday's trade. Note in the top chart how we came sharply lower in the early morning in the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DIA), hitting a low around 9:08 AM CT (first light blue arrow), bouncing, and then making a new low around 9:25 AM CT (second light blue arrow).

I had no thoughts of buying the market on this first bottom: all major indexes were participating in the decline, and many more stocks were trading at their bid price vs. their offers (bottom chart). Catching those falling knives and trying to call bottoms before market action confirms a turnaround is a perilous occupation.

By 9:25 AM CT, however, the market's situation changed considerably. As the Dow moved to marginal price lows (top chart), the S&P 500 Index (SPY; middle chart) failed to record new lows. We also failed to make new lows in the Russell 2000 (IWM) and NASDAQ 100 (QQQQ) indexes and their respective futures contracts. Volume (dark blue arrow) declined significantly as we made the new low, suggesting that large market participants were not joining the downside. At 9:25 AM CT also, we had many fewer stocks trading at their bid vs. offer (NYSE TICK; bottom chart). In short, the Dow was traveling alone; nothing was confirming its weakness. This is one of my key setups for a reversal trade.

The hypothesis behind this trade is that selling is drying up and that we should see buyers come into the market and produce a healthy bounce. My initial price target is the set of price highs we made during the bounce between 9:08 AM and 9:25 AM; my next targets are the price highs around the 9:00 AM period before the market's selloff.

I want to enter the market as close to the hypothesized lows as possible so that my trade has a favorable risk/reward profile. I want to make more money on a winning trade than I would lose if I were stopped out. For that reason, I want to enter the trade as soon as I see buyers coming into the market, lifting offers out of the unconfirmed lows. I don't try to catch the exact low; I wait for buying to surface and quickly join in.

So now the question of where I put my stop becomes clear: I stop the trade out if we make new lows in the indexes that had been non-confirming, such as SPY. I stop the trade out if we make new lows in NYSE TICK. I stop the trade if the initial buying out of the expected lows leads to a reversal on enhanced volume. In other words, I stop the trade when my idea is not supported: when the unfolding evidence of the market is not meeting the expectations of my hypothesis.

It is in the sizing of the trade that I ensure that I am not risking an undue proportion of my portfolio on any one idea. In my own trading, if I'm risking the equivalent of 3 S&P points as the distance between my entry and my stop-loss, I'll size the position so that the loss of the 3 points won't draw my portfolio down by more than a fixed fraction of portfolio value. That fixed fraction is determined by the amount of portfolio value I'm willing to lose in a day, which is determined by the amount of value I'm willing to draw down in a week and a month. Each trade should risk a fraction of what you're willing to risk in a day; each day should risk a fraction of what you're willing to risk in a week; etc. That gives you the opportunity to battle back when your hypotheses are disconfirmed on one trade after another.

What I hope is clear is that setting stop loss levels is not a simple matter of saying, "I'll risk $1000 or 3 points on this trade." The stop-loss level is integrally tied into the clarity of the trade idea; the execution of that idea to maximize reward-to-risk; and the trader's overall risk management. When you're clear about your trade ideas, it's easier to be clear about stop loss levels, and that makes it easier to keep losses small relative to wins.

RELATED POST:

Trade Like a Scientist
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8 comments:

netbsd said...

Hi,
i find this article very interesting, but there is something i have not fully understood and that is when you say "I stop the trade if the initial buying out of the expected lows leads to volume on enhanced volume", can you exlaint this concept in a different way?
Thanks

Brett Steenbarger, Ph.D. said...

Hi Netbsd,

Thanks for catching this; I corrected the text. It should have read, "I stop the trade if the initial buying out of the expected lows leads to a reversal on enhanced volume." In other words, I want to see enhanced volume in the direction of my trade, not reversing my trade.

Brett

TeamLBR said...

It was a beautiful setup and I enjoyed the article. However, on Tradestation at the time I show a lower low on $tick and $tickc. I realize it might be beyond the scope of this discussion but do you know of any explanation for the discrepency? As usual, thank you for sharing your insightful work!

George said...

Here is my take on stops:

A lot of things have to come together to become a successful day trader -- no easy task to accomplish (I certainly haven't accomplished it... yet). Unfortunately, all you have to do is repeatedly screw up one of those things to become a failed day trader. IMO, trading without stops, or setting stops without adhering to strict money management, is one way to screw it all up right out of the gate.

My way of handling stops using a long trade setup in SPY:

I first determine the low I want to trade off and then I typically set my stop 5-15c below that low, depending on volume, volatility, pattern, etc. I only use mental stops with SPY because, if there is an extreme, momentary price spike that prints against my position (happens often in SPY), a resting stop can get blown out pretty bad and you can really get hammered on the additional loss.

Next, I determine my initial price target (considering resistance levels, etc.) and then I back off on that target a little in case it doesn't quite get there. For the time being, I am only trading a small position, so when my initial price target is hit, I'm all out, so no need for me to figure further price targets right now, and no need to size my position related to risk. I suspect that I should be trading 2x my small position so I can take profits on half at the initial price target, and let the other half run to a second price target (with a raised stop). I actually wonder if I might be short-changing myself by not trading a *runner*?

Then, I determine the range by taking the price of my initial target and subtracting the price where my stop will be placed (below the low I am trading off). The top two thirds of that range must be at least 20c or, for me, it's not worth trading. Assuming at least 20c for the top two thirds of the range, and since I want to maintain a minimum risk:reward ratio of 1:2, the bottom one third of that range becomes my entry zone.

If price is already in the entry zone and is in the process of moving up towards the top, and potentially out, of the zone, then timing the entry is pretty easy, like, maybe... right now. However, if price is moving down into the entry zone, then timing the entry gets a bit tricky because the lower the price, the better the risk:reward, but the longer I wait for the lowest price, the more chance of price suddenly reversing and moving up and out of my entry zone, thus missing the trade. Even if I get a really low entry price, I do not move my stop lower because I would rather have a better risk:reward ratio. If price isn't in, or doesn't drop into, the entry zone, I won't take the trade.

Anyway, once I am in the trade, if price starts moving down towards my mental stop, I setup up a market order to sell, stop watching the charts, and start watching the bid. If the bid hits my mental stop even once, I'm out. No hesitation. No second guessing. Period. Hey, I never have problems getting out of a trade! Now, pulling the trigger to actually get into a trade... well, that's a different story. If I got started on that, it would be embarrassing. ;-)

It sounds complicated but it only takes a few seconds to determine the entry zone.

SSK said...

Hello Brett, Thanks for the insight into your methodology. I use the tick and the volume at price (30min bars) to pick up on high volume area's for support and resistance, although I also look for divergences in the tick, the XLF, etc. If I see price approaching a support or resistance area, and see that price doesnt seem to want to trade right to the middle or high or low(depending on price direction), and I get in early, I base my stop on not a fixed percentage, but above or below the volume cluster that is part of my overall assessment of my strategy. Couple that approach with profile theroy, the tick, a 5tick reversal chart, and a 5000 delta footprint chart makes a good picture where reasonably high risk to reward patterns can be found. Interestingly, many times if I do get in eary, and my stop is at the volume cluster, and price does trade slightly above it and I get stopped out, I reenter if I see that volume is not increasing as price moves through the cluster, many times the second entry is the great trade, and makes up for the 2-4 points that I am generally ready to give the market for random movement. Also, I take your advice, and as soon as I enter, figure out what my stop loss is going to be, so that I have in my mind and am prepared mentally for the loss, that helps me in getting ready for the next quick desision to get right back in, if the stop was a bit close. Many times, I get stopped out to the tick, but when I get back in, it is usually a better price than the first time, and I can ride it back to the mean, or the other end of value, or the other end of the range, or another volume cluster that is support, or a formation or divergence on the tick or 5000 delta footprint chart. What I am going to set as a goal soon, in my breif therapy sessions, is reversing at asymmetrical trade location, many times the jubulation of a win, prevents me from taking the other side of the move because I feel so good i just had a good trade. I like to get up take a break, then I come back and kick myself for not reversing. I cant say in retospect this approach will always work, but in a bracketing market, it can increase your gains, if your stops are right below the bar you exited, not giving away much from your intial gain. After 3 months of working on entrys, I mangaged to grade a C+, with 69% accuracy, and a $400 dollar spread between winners and losers. I would have like to get a B, but I think it is time to work on either exits, or reversing for the next few months. Thanks for everything as always, Best, SSK

BundFox said...

Something that a lot of new traders miss is the importance of the 'relationship' trade on the stop management process. I often had trainees who would be long Bobl because the Schatz and Euribor were bouncing the lows. However they would then become so focussed on the price action of the Bobl (a side effect of monetary exposure) and they would loose sight of the 'relationship' reason of the trade. It would take some time for them to be able to step back a bit and keep their eye on the 'relationship' in order to manage their position and its stop. One thing I would like to inform you about is that if you are using Market Delta to track price action you should be aware I watch it and the market like a hawk and it produces many errors with Eurex data. I do not watch CME data as closely, so am not sure if it produces the same errors, but I am forever having to refresh my MD charts by downloading data because the volume does not agree with what I see trading on my TT X-Trader. Just a bit of a heads up that’s all. I have plenty of screen grabs with this error and MD is aware of it.

Joe said...

Hi Brett,


Congrats on your Trade idea.
Your logic was like the mirror of My own logic except the following little differences:

1. Since I play the NASDAQ100 (QLD / QID) most often I put more emphais on the NASADQ100 ormations.

2. There was a very strong supporting Trend-Line on the NASDAQ100 / 60 min timeframe, on which the stock stopped falling like a nife.

3. Also there was some confirmatoins that buyers started to outweight sellers by that time on QLD.

Similar to you I entered on the Long side as my first trade on this past Friday at 9.24 CT (at 70.71 $ / QLD)
(I just checked the exact time from my records.)
My stop was just a bit below the Min of the Day untill my entry price.

By the way be careful next week!
My (pretty reliable) predictor is NOT Bullish for Monday morning, relative to Friday's close levels.
For this reason I am looking more on the short side.

Joe from Hungary.

Johan Lindén said...

Excellent post as so many times before!